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HISTORY OF ROEA–BOR SPLIT

Author: Administrator
October 7, 2009
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As we discuss the possibility of our ROEA Episcopate leaving the OCA and reunifying under Bucharest church rule (BOR), it is worthwhile to understand why we left BOR in the first place. It is important to review the Episcopate’s situation in the 1950’s and to understand that history prior to formulating our opinion on the present day church situation, in that history does repeat itself, and we become wiser when we learn from the past.

The ROEA history of this period was presented in the 1977 SOLIA Calendar and is over 60 pages long. We have scanned it and made it available on this website so that all interested parties can review and learn from this history. It is an amazing story, and frighteningly similar to the present context. Today, as yesterday, we still want what is in our best interests here, in North America. As well, today, as yesterday, Bucharest still wants what is in its best interests, and does not necessarily focus on responding to our religious needs here, in North America.

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33 Comments to “HISTORY OF ROEA–BOR SPLIT”


  1. Anna Says:

    We are Romanians not “Russians”. Since when is our mother church the OCA.

    We Romanians are the only ones on this continent….care suntem rataciti in vant….nici de ruga…nici de fuga! Fara nici un cuvant de spus in Ortodoxia din America…..pentru ca nu suntem uniti…ci condusi de unii si de altii. In loc sa avem Mitropolia noastra…mai bine stam la cheremul lui OCA.

    Ce prostie. Cine vreti….stati…dar noi vrem sa fim uniti….sa avem Mitropolia Noastra.


  2. Administrator Says:

    Dear Anna,
    Your statement is reflective of the confusion caused purposefully by certain pro-unity proponents who have no problem twisting the truth to support their own end. It is clear to many of us that Orthodoxy in America is a multi-ethnic regrouping in this multi-cultural American melting pot, where cradle Orthodox and converts come together to form this local Church. In North America this is best represented by the Autocephalous Orthodox Church in America and not by any single national and foreign Church such as the Romanian Church or Russian Church, etc. These Churches are local Churches in their respective countries, but not here where our local Autocephalous Church is the OCA.


  3. P. Henry Says:

    I was turned on to this web site after having received a letter a little while ago. I’m happy about it, since there is so much info that I never knew. This article on the history of the church is very informative. One particular part, however gave me great concern.

    The article quotes Justinian as calling American soldiers “murderers”. I’m thinking to myself, if the President of the United States had to resign from his church because of two or three statements made by his Minister, that some considered anti-American, what about this statement of Justinian. If the American people ever knew that some people wanted Romanians to join a foreign church that considered American soldiers “murderers”, there would be such an out-cry, it would take Romanians at least a generation to recover. I wonder how many “American murderers” would attend our festivals and donate to our churches. Probably many would come, but they would come with signs saying “Go Home”. Our churches would be destroyed and like the President had to do, many would end up leaving.


  4. Anna Says:

    Nu semnifica nimic ce e scris deasupra….ci doar un trecut….pe timpul cand BOR era supus Comunismului.

    Dar ce sa stie cei nascuti in America despre cum e sa traiesti in comunism….nimic. Doar sa judece gresit.

    Astea scrise aici sunt doar bete in roate…ca sa nu se faca o Mitropolie pe continentul American….Mai bine sa stam la cheremul OCA’ului nu? Cine Vrea sa stea. Dar eu zic sa se faca un vot….in toata Episcopia….si sa se dicida asa….mii se pare corect.

    Suntem Romani…nu Rusi!


  5. Administrator Says:

    Draga Anna,

    Ce este scris in acest articol inseamna istoria noastra, a celor care am cladit aceste institutii romanesti si ortodoxe aici in America. Avem o istorie de 100 de ani. Astazi, noi si copiii nostri suntem Ortodocsi Americani de origine romana si facem parte din Biserica Ortodoxa, locala, Autocefala si Americana. Cine vrea sa ramana sub papucul unei tari straine, in cazul nostru, Romania (care isi controleaza Biserica platind clerul sau), nu are decat sa ramana subjugat Patriarhiei Romane prin adererea la Arhiepiscopia Romana aici in Chicago, a lui IPS Nicolae. Noi vrem sa ramanem in OCA. Daca vreti Romania, cine va opreste sa va duceti la IPS Nicolae? Anna, sa stii ca OCA nu este Rusa, ci singura Biserica Ortodoxa Autocefala in America.


  6. Anna Says:

    Nu semnifica nimic tot ceea ce se scrie aici situl acesta…ci numai minciunii….pe timpul cand BOR era supus Comunismului.

    Dar ce sa stie cei nascuti in America despre cum e sa traiesti in comunism….nimic. Doar sa judece gresit.

    Astea scrise aici sunt doar bete in roate…ca sa nu se faca o Mitropolie pe continentul American….Mai bine sa stam la cheremul OCA’ului nu? Cine Vrea sa stea. Dar eu zic sa se faca un vot….in toata Episcopia….si sa se dicida asa….mii se pare corect.

    Suntem Romani…nu Rusi! Si va fii o ruptura in Episcopia aceasta. Americanii care nu stiu romaneste sa mearga la OCA…cu tine cu Domul Administrator….dar noi Romanii vrem sa ne unim…sa avem Mitropolia noastra…canonic sub Biserica noastra Mama…care este Romania!


  7. Administrator Says:

    Draga Anna,
    Ce este scris aici, este adevarul copiat din calendarul nostru ,,Solia’’ din 1977. Astazi, noi suntem Americani de origine Romana si vrem o Biserica Ortodoxa pentru copiii nostri, adica OCA, din care si facem parte. Cine vrea nostalgie si sa traiasca sub papucul Bucurestiului n-are decat sa mearga la ROAA, unde IPS Nicolae il va primi in numele Patriarhiei Romane si a Departamentului Cultelor si afacerilor straine. Unde este Biserica Ortodoxa locala? Acolo sa fii credincios! Iata ortodoxia noastra. Iata Biserica noastra mama, aici in America. OCA!.


  8. Anna Says:

    Nu are nici o relevanta…..fiind ca atunci era alte vremuri…comunismul.
    Iara numai cei care au trait sub el poate intelege cum o fost.

    Biserica noastra mama este - Patriarhia Romana……ori cat o intorci si o sucesti.


  9. Administrator Says:

    Draga Anna,
    Poti sa repeti acelasi lucru de cate ori vrei, dar adevarul iese la lumina intotdeauna, si acesta este ca Biserica copiilor nostri nu poate fi BOR, care reprezinta trecutul nostru, ci numai OCA, care reprezinta viitorul copiilor nostri. Acest lucru nu are nimic de a face cu comunismul, ci are de a face cu cei 100 de ani ai nostri in America si viitorul ortodox al copiilor nostri Americani, aici.


  10. P. Henry Says:

    Poor Anna! She implies we know nothing about communism here. Not true. The communists came here and tried to take over our movie industry - but we did not let them. The communists came here and tried to take over our labor unions - but we did not let them. The communists even tried to inflitrate our government, but we stopped them. And, yes, Anna, the communists came and tried to take over our church and we did not let them do it. We know about communism, that is why we have done what we have done.

    Unfortunately, the same church administration instituted by the communists in the Romanian church is still in place (Justinian still rules!) and many who were part of the collaboration with the communists are still in control of the Romanian church. Why would anyone want to be part of that? In Romania, the people have no choice, for there is only one church. But not in America. For here we have many choices. Putting us under Bucharest will force people to make other choices, which will mean the end of the Romanian churches in America.


  11. Fr. David Hudson Says:

    Forgive me, Esteemed Editor, if my question is indiscreet, but: Is there anything missing from this story? I’m under the impression that I have read somewhere that some priests in the Missionary Episcopate were instrumental in having Bishop Policarp detained in Romania in the 1930s, because there was unrest over his leadership style/principles/vision, or because of conflicting ambitions. Is that a figment of my imagination, or did I indeed read that in some other published account of that period’s activities?


  12. Administrator Says:

    Dear Fr. Hudson,
    I believe that you are correct in that we continuosly have made excuses for, and under-emphasized the atrocities caused by Bucharest and as represented by the Riopelle street thugs cloaked in black robes and calling themselves representatives of a Romanian Missionary Episcopate on this continent. We are so polite and so naïve. I guess we are just nice guys taken for a ride by those well-trained in subterfuge. It’s time to wake up!


  13. Fr. David Hudson Says:

    I’m sorry, sir, but I think you may have misunderstood me. I was referring to the Missionary Episcopate as it existed prior to WWII. Were there not priests who resisted Bishop Policarp’s leadership, and wanted to get rid of him? I’m under the impression that it was not all Bucharest’s doing. But maybe I’m just dreaming that I read that somewhere in an account about Bishop Policarp.


  14. Administrator Says:

    Dear Fr. Hudson,
    Prior to 1950 there was but one Romanian Orthodox Episcopate in North America and by the end of WWII it was clear that most Romanian Orthodox parishes in North America wanted nothing further to do with Communist Romania. Conversely, Bucharest wanted to reinforce its hold on the Vatra Episcopate and thus created another North American Missionary Episcopate in 1950 in order to take over the Vatra Episcopate. Court cases ensued in the early 1950’s, but the conclusions of these gave the Vatra Episcopate sole legitimacy as the proper heir to the original, single Romanian Episcopate that existed here before WWII. From that day on we have in North America the original Vatra Episcopate, the “Romanian Orthodox Episcopate of America” (ROEA, today a Diocese of the OCA-Washington) as well as the newer Riopelle Episcopate, now called the “Romanian Orthodox Archdiocese of the Americas” (ROAA, a Diocese of BOR-Bucharest).

    Thus, from the early 1900’s we see a grouping of individual Romanian Orthodox parishes that come together and organise themselves, first as a regrouping of parishes, and then more like a Diocese. The need for a Bishop then becomes more pronounced. At a church Congress in 1935, and with the help of the Romanian Patriarch Nicodim, Bishop Morusca is named the Episcopate’s first Hierarch. He goes to Romania soon after, and because of the war, he is unable to travel back to the US. When the war ends and he is able to return, he is blocked by the newly installed Communist government and dies in Romania.

    It is true that, even prior to 1935, asking Bucharest for hierarchal and clerical help for Romanian Orthodox parishes in North America did not meet with unanimity. Having Morusca as Bishop was equally not unanimous. It should be remembered that these parishes were built, owned and maintained by the members themselves, and this for 30-40 years for many of them. Consequently, they had a different church mindset, a more North American one, than did Bishop Morusca who had a church administration culture that was purely East European. Some here even saw a few of Morusca’s positions as an intrusion into their affairs. But, in the end, it should be concluded that in spite of this, Bishop Morusca was the widely accepted leader of the Vatra Episcopate, and this until he died. It should also be remembered that the Episcopate leadership asked for his return at every opportunity. Finally, even when Bishop Valerian was named in 1951, officially, he was only Bishop Morusca’s LOCUM TENENS, and this until Morusca’s death in Romania.


  15. Fr. David Hudson Says:

    Dear Editor,

    Thank you for the clarification. I have read the above article with close attention. I have also read, some time ago, Fr. Grama’s account, as well as the account by Professor Sasu of Cluj. And add to that, Archbishop Nicolae’s account which was published in this year’s ROAA almanac. Unfortunately I do not have them available at the moment, and cannot check my faulty memory. But I was under the impression that the seeds of the break-up of Romanian unity were present from even before the founding of the Episcopate in 1929.

    It seems clear to me that autonomy has always been highly valued in the Romanian-American parishes; and as far as I can tell in my very limited experienced, a very high degree of autonomy is enjoyed in the parishes of BOTH of the present Romanian jurisdictions in North America, especially when compared with the Greek Archdiocese or the Antiochian one. (I bring as evidence the fact that was discussed at the 2009 Congress of the ROEA: a significant percentage of parishes do not even give an annual report to the Episcopate, and I believe there are similar problems of disorder in the ROAA.)

    Another very important factor which seems to be omitted from most, if not all accounts of the break-up of Romanian unity in America, is the ideological division between those who sympathized with the right-wing nationalism of the interwar period (as exemplified in the Iron Guard, the Legion of St. Michael the Archangel, etc.), over against those who either sympathized with, or “made their peace with” communism, in one way or another. I have heard it said (and I don’t know it for a fact) that the Vatra inclined toward the right wing nationalists, and those who joined the replacement diocese (today’s ROAA) inclined more toward the left.

    I understand, at least partially, that Bucharest has acted in a very unwelcome way since the end of WWII. But in my opinion (whatever it may be worth), Bucharest is not responsible for the disunity; it was arguably created here as much as it was there.

    In any event, the fault lines are different today; and as “Anna” says in the above postings, today’s issues seem to be primarily about (1) Romanian vs. American English as keys to the cultural identity of the parishes; and (2) how the autocephaly of the OCA is to be understood, and what is the role of the OCA in a possible future united Orthodoxy in America which would continue to provide a place for (a) those whose first language is not English and (b) those who prefer the “Romanian Usage” (typikon, customs, melodies, etc.) as opposed to Russian or Greek styles.

    I think it would be helpful if we would focus on the issues and not keep rehearsing the mistakes of the past, especially in a way that makes it appear that all the mistakes were on one side of the unity divide.

    We all claim to want unity. We just don’t agree to the terms. However, if we really want unity, we must speak with love and respect about our brothers, including those who have wronged us, and those with whom we disagree. There can be no unity without some kind of accomodation. And the fact is, ideological positions aside, we do not yet know what shape Orthodox unity in America will take: what will be the role of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, what will be the role of the OCA, etc.

    Disunity is the result of sin. Let him who is without sin cast stones.


  16. Administrator Says:

    Fr. Hutson, the following is in response to your latest posting. Our Oct 21, 2009 response to your Oct. 20, 2009 comment said that “from the early 1900’s we see a grouping of individual Romanian Orthodox parishes that come together and organise themselves, first as a regrouping of parishes… It should be remembered that these parishes were built, owned and maintained by the members themselves… Consequently, they had a different church mindset, a more North American one…” In this context it is difficult to support the position that “the seeds of the break-up of Romanian unity were present from even before the founding of the Episcopate in 1929”. Break up of what? Individual parishes built, owned and maintained by faithful who hired itinerant priests or imported them from their own villages in Romania? There was nothing organised over here in North America. No Diocese. No Episcopate until much later. A unity that didn’t exist couldn’t be broken up.

    Because of the independent mindset held by these North American faithful a real “maximal autonomy” was the rule of the day and clearly some differences of opinion occured when Bishop Morusca appeared on the scene. For that reason the Oct 21, 2009 response focussed on the different mindset these faithful had. Obviously, Bishop Morusca had a different church organisational baggage when he arrived in North America – a much more structured and “Old World” one. Yes, the early regrouping of parishes evolved over 30-40 years, but only came together as a real Episcopate under Bishop Morusca. If anything, it is Bishop Morusca who forged the unity here.

    You attempt to introduce an issue of right wing and left wing politics into this discussion. Without delving too deeply into the past, suffice it to say that most American/Canadians of Romanian heritage would agree (along with the vast majority of their compatriots) that the word “Communist” was and is a four letter word. As well, in cold war lingo and to this day, to Communists, anyone who is not a Communist must be, by definition, right wing, or better still, a fascist. Clearly, there were and are few Communist sympathisers in our cultural and religious regroupings here in North America. To most of us who went through that period, the ROAA is the successor to the religious creation of Communist Romania in the early 1950’s. This is the reason for 2 Dioceses. One is real (ROEA) with the largest number of parishes and faithful, and the other a political creation of Communist Romania. Thus, Bucharest is most definitely responsible for the “disunity” and dividing our community here ever since. The real question is why does Bucharest persist with its cold war position so many years after 1990? Why doesn’t it just have the ROAA join the ROEA in the OCA? This is the Christian thing to do, in line with Orthodox church teaching, not to mention that this is the right thing to do. Anything else serves foreign interests, of all kinds.


  17. Fr. David Hudson Says:

    Doamne ajuta!


  18. Administrator Says:

    Dear Father Hudson. We all believe that the Lord helps those in need. Father, please pray that He continues to help us through this difficult time for our Episcopate.


  19. Anna Says:

    Mr P. Henry. No! Americans do not know how it is to live under communism. They only saw it from the outside. But believe me, if they were to live under communism, the USA would not be what it is today.

    Iara Biserica Ortodoxa Romana a trait sub comunism. Si iata, ea exista si astazi, pentru ca asa a ingaduit Dumnezeu. Sfintenia ei una Sfanta si Soborniceasca Biserica, va mereu dainui.

    It’s easy to point fingers, on coruption. But let’s look at the OCA. What were all the financial scandals in the past few years? The OCA does not offer us a future. People who keep saying this are only trying to hide under the skirt of the OCA so that they can avoid answering for their actions to holy Synod of BOR,for their canonical heresies.


  20. Administrator Says:

    Dear Anna, of course Americans have not lived under communism because they fought it tooth and nail throughout the World Wars. Please see New Hampshire’s licence plate logo: “Live Free or Die” now that’s American. The Church in Romanian did what it did during the communist era and no one should judge what was done then. But why continue the nonsense today, 20 years after 1989? Why does the ROAA still exist? Why not let the ROAA join ROEA in the OCA?

    Regarding corruption in the church, and as mentioned on this website before, can anyone imagine trying to oust a corrupt Russian or Romanian Patriarch? Dream on. It would never happen. The OCA did just that thanks to its strong lay participation, and its independent-minded Priests and Bishops. This was all accomplished without schism and without organizational meltdown. Bravo OCA! This is our Church of the present and the future for all Orthodox Americans and Canadians. Also, before anyone in our Episcopate will answer BOR questions we have a few for them. Incidentally, where are the answers to the first few pages of Due Diligence questions asked of the ROAA?


  21. Anna Says:

    I commend the remarks made by Fr. Hudson. Unity’s absolutly necessary. Those who are against unity with Bucharest do not provide any other solution. All they say is OCA, OCA. Ok, OCA. But what unity has OCA provided for us up until now? Absolutly nothing!!!


  22. Administrator Says:

    Dear Anna, please remember that we are in the OCA, having sworn allegiance to this church many years before a home in America was even a possibility for most present day immigrants from Romania. It seems you have the question reversed. If you suggest that we should leave the OCA you must come up with valid, Orthodox and American reasons for this to occur. It is not incumbent upon us to defend the status quo, but up to you who are attempting to overturn that which is in place, having our autocephalous OCA being replaced by a foreign church, to justify why this is valid and necessary.

    Anna, the BOR abandoned us many many years ago and has continued to insult us ever since. The latest insult is not having the decency to stop and correct the misinformation it has been spreading about us from the end of WWII. A good place to start now? Why does BOR’s communist creation, now called the ROAA not join the ROEA in the OCA? That would be the Christian thing to do for a Christian church no longer subjected to communist rule. The OCA has been our Mother Church for 40 years and has provided us with a canonical coverage and canonical unity with all Orthodox in America and Canada. This we did not have from 1950 to 1960, after being abandoned by BOR. The OCA is now our Mother. She is the Orthodox Church in America, not Romania, but America. By the way, isn’t America also your home address? The OCA is our present and future. Stop trying to drag us into the dark past with threats of BOR coverage. If you have any good Orthodox and American reasons for this to occur please let all of us know. To date, all we have heard are ethnocentric and non-canonical arguments that support the move under BOR. None of these arguments are valid, let alone convincing.


  23. Anna Says:

    Mr Administrator, aparator al vatrei, in no circumstance am I threatening anyone. And as far as your accusations go, you are very wrong to accuse the patriarch of Romania Corrupt. The patriarch of Romania, from a theological standpoint does not compare to any hierarch in the U.S. He is TRULY prepared theologically to preserve orthodox christianity, teach it and lead it’s people. But you would not know this, because you have no ideea. They do not insult the ROEA in any way and so I ask you to stop insulting our Mother Church, and think about what you say before you write it. And if your going to say something, add arguments and evidence to support your accusations.

    It is one thing to fight communism, and another to live under it. People born in the U.S do not know what it is like to live under a dictator and will never know. We as Romanians are proud of the fact we have a Romanian Patriarchate, which suffered through communism, and which preserves the Teachings of the Orthodox Church. We are also proud to be living in a free country which offers us the possibilty to succeed in life. HOWEVER, this freedom I speak of has nothing to do with what is in our hearts, the ROMANIAN ORTHODOX FAITH. True…we are first ORTHODX as Christians, which bonds us to every orthodox person worldwide regardless of his/her nationality. But we are also Romanian, Romanian Orthodox christians living in the United States of America,abiding the law and paying our taxes. We have the freedom to preserve our Romanian Orthodox identity and we want to do this not by continuing to influenced and lead by outsiders, the OCA, but by embracing our mother church BOR who defines and supports us as the “Romanian” “Orthodox” “Episcopate” of America, title by which we go by.

    You continue to accuse the BOR, which provided all 98 of the priests of this episcopate the theological education to serve God’s Church. You continue to claim the OCA is our mother church, when the OCA, up until now has gave us nothing. We separated from BOR because of the influence of Ceausescu and cummunism. Communism is overcome. The church is free. The Romanian government has no power or influence in the BOR! We now want to unite with our Mother church in a christian and forgiving way, and look forward, and stop dwelling on what happened in the past. Move froward = o Mitroplie Ortodoxa Romana pe continentul american, autonoma, sub patriarhia romana, unindu-ne intr-o singura aministratie, intr-o singura credinta, sub o singura nationalitate.


  24. Administrator Says:

    Anna, I don’t recall saying that your words threaten anyone. I said that to Mihai if I recall. (Anna – Mihai ?) What I did respond on Nov. 7, 2009 to your comment is that BOR has insulted us ever since abandoning us at the end of WWII. They did it right through the Communist era, but why must they continue the misinformation campaign about those times even now, after 1989, if things indeed have changed in BOR? Why can’t they do the right thing and allow ROAA to join ROEA in the OCA? Also, that BOR is a corrupt church is not something concocted by this website. Spiritual Fathers in Romania like Iustin Parvu and Arsenie Papacioc say it, and the example given above allows us to suspect that indeed, it continues to be the case.

    No one born here can know what it is like to live under a dictator is a fine statement, but not germane to our debate. Communism or who suffered more is NOT the point here. This debate is really about the religious future of our children and grandchildren. Please understand that everyone concerned is proud of our Romanian heritage, but many of us are now American and we want to pass on our Orthodoxy to our children. Clearly, this is a difficult issue for 1st and even 2nd generation immigrants, but over time, as you get to being 3rd, 4th and even 5th generation born in this country, the issue of faith becomes more important than ethnic origin, as is normal. Here, we all become American and over time, even hyphenated names like American-Romanian get dropped. However, we always can treasure and promote our faith, and so why not attempt to make the Orthodox faith, which we received from our ancestors, the faith of our children as well? After all, many of us believe that Orthodoxy best presents Christianity to the world. But to do this we must adapt it to our children’s needs and thus we say BOR is our past and the OCA our present and future. Do you really think our American-born children will understand why we choose to no longer be led religiously from here, and instead prefer to be led from abroad? I doubt it.

    Orthodox teaching is that the church is organized and administrated locally. For that reason alone, BOR has no business in America, much like the OCA has no business in Romania. It really is that simple. You claim that: “The Romanian government has no power or influence in the BOR” yet all Hierarchs and clergy are paid by the Romanian government; a situation of undue influence. Thus, BOR is not a free church like our Episcopate in the OCA is. Our Church exists strictly because of our own financial contributions. Our donations pay for our Hierarchs and clergy, unlike countries like Romania where the government pays their salaries and consequently has undue influence over them. Remember, the separation between church and state is complete here in America, and in most democratic countries. Anything else would be viewed as un-American and certainly unacceptable to those born here, in North America. For these reasons as well, the ROAA should join the ROEA in the OCA, the only REAL way forward for our childrens’ Orthodoxy.


  25. Anna Says:

    Why should ROAA join the ROEA under OCA? Domnule, am mai spus, si repet, si sper sa intelege-ti! Suntem romani nu rusi si nu americani. Suntem romani. Iara daca suntem romani vom apartine de biserica noastra mama din Romania si ne vom gurverna sub Mitropolia noastra aici pe continentul nord american.

    Vom fi si noi, asa cum sunt grecii, asa cum sunt antiohienii, asa cum sunt sarbii, si asa mai departe. Nu va convine aceasta idée, nu aveti de cat sa ramaneti cu OCA. Nu ne mai trage-ti pe toti noi majoritatea cu voi! “Romanii” se vor unii odata pentru totdeauna sub BOR, intr-o singura Mitropolie Nord Americana.

    Domnule, faptul ca clerul din Romania au salar de la guvern, nu inseamna ca guvernul are dreptul sau un cuvant de spus cum sa se conduca Patriarhia Romana. Inseamna ca guvernul, “ca ansamblu” contribuie ceva bisericii. Asa inseamna. Dar cum sa stiti ce si cum daca dmv. traiti aici si habar nu aveti. Daca folositi un argument, adaugati si baza la acel argument. Iara daca nu aveti cu ce sustine ce scrieti (evidenta clara) atunci, nu mai scrieti si nu mai acuzati biserica ortodoxa romana pe nedrept.


  26. Administrator Says:

    Anna, cel fel de justificare dai pentru a parasi OCA ca sa ne supunem unei Biserici din alt teritoriu? “Suntem romani nu rusi si nu americani. Suntem romani. Iara daca suntem romani vom apartine de biserica noastra mama din Romania, si ne vom gurverna sub Mitropolia noastra aici pe continentul nord american.” SPER CA STII CA NU ESTE NIMIC ORTODOX IN CEEA CE SPUI. BISERICA ORTODOXA NU ESTE CLADITA PE BAZA DE ETNII, CI PE BAZA TERITORIALA.

    In plus spui ca nu sunteti American! O fi adevarat, dar copiii vostri vor fi Americani, vrand – nevrand. Istoria noastra pe acest continent este dovada. Singura metoda de a avea o speranta ca, copiii vor ramane ortodocsi, este ca ROEA sa ramana in OCA, biserica locala Americana.

    Va rugam, nu incercati sa ne inselati chiar asa! Din moment ce guvernul plateste salariile clericilor, atunci inseamna ca, clericii sunt sub influenta guvernului, vrand – nevrand. Asa este cu banul, de cand este lumea si pamantul.


  27. Anna Says:

    Asta este conceptia si parerea voastra bolnava daunatore aici in America, in priviinta Patriarhiei Romane din Romania. Unirea se va face, cu sau fara voi “mica minoritate” de cei care ne impiedica sa ne unim cu natiunea noastra mama, BOR.


  28. Administrator Says:

    Saraca Anna, ea nu intelege ca natiunea se refera la o tara ca si Romania, si BOR repezinta religia ortodoxa din Romania. Aici natiunea este cea Americana cu tara America, si OCA reprezinta religia ortodoxa din America. Deci, BOR este de acolo, si OCA este de aici. In plus, cine este “mica minoritate” ramane sa fie vazut. Intre timp, nu numara puii inainte ca gaina sa faca ouale…


  29. Mihai Says:

    Domnule Administrator, ia un sondaj la preoti, si la lacii acestei episcopii. Vezi ce zic si ei. Vei fi surprins ca 90 din preoti vor unirea cu BOR. Eu sunt serios. Dumneata vad ca nu esti serios, si crezi ca o minoritate de oameni pot sa conduca o majoritate. Sunte-ti culmea!

    Suntem romani! Vrem sa apartinem canonic de natiunea noastra, guvernadu-ne in mod autonom aici pe continentul american! Ce e asa de rau in asta, si greu de inteles.


  30. Administrator Says:

    Mihai de unde ai rezultate de sondaje care inca nu s-au facut? Minoritate? Majoritate? Cine stie?… Un lucru este clar, suntem acum in OCA; adica status quo este ROEA-OCA. Ideia revolutionara ar fi sa abandonam OCA, ca sa mergem sub BOR. Deci, daca Unirea nu are un suport masiv in ROEA, rezultatul va fi DEZBINARE, RUPTURA, etc., fiindca nu pot rasturna un status quo asa usor.

    Saracul Mihai!! Ai devenit ca saraca Anna. Inca nu ai inteles… Natiune-Tara - adica cea Romana din Romania, sau cea Americana din America. Biserica Ortodoxa – adica BOR in Romania, si OCA in America.


  31. Toma Says:

    Daca nu stii, atunci fa sondajul Domnule. Nu mai trage lucrurile de coada, si vezi ce spun oamenii. Si daca trece si este majoritate, ce faci Domnule? Ar trebui sa te intrebi intrebarea aceasta. Ca cu forta nu vei putea sat ii pe toata lumea cum vrei tu! Enough is enough. (Destul.)


  32. Admininsrator Says:

    Mai Toma, ma pui sa repet ceea ce am spus prietenului tau Mihai, pe data de 4 dec. 2009. “Minoritate? Majoritate? Cine stie?… Un lucru este clar, suntem acum in OCA; adica status quo este ROEA-OCA. Ideea revolutionara ar fi sa abandonam OCA, ca sa mergem sub BOR. Deci, daca unirea sub BOR nu are un suport MASIV in ROEA, rezultatul va fi DEZBINARE, RUPTURA, etc., fiindca nu pot rasturna un status quo usor.”
    Toma, de ce nu intelegi ca votul s-a luat de mult. Fiecare imigrant dupa 1950, laic sau cleric, a avut de ales intre ROEA/OCA si ROAA/BOR. Acest adevar exista si pentru imigrantii veniti dupa 1990. Deci, de 60 de ani marea majoritate voteaza cu picioarele si alege masiv ROEA/OCA; si aceasta pana-n ziua de astazi. Ce vot mai important decat acesta vrei tu acum?
    Nu intelegeti ca cei trimisi ca sa se infiltreze in Episcopia noastra nu pot darama ceea ce a fost cladit aici cu corectitudine, cinste, dreptate si adevar? Daca noi, mostenitorii lor, nu suntem vrednici si capabili sa protejam tezaurul religios primit de la parinti, pentru a-l transmite generatiilor viitoare aici, atunci mortii nostri se vor ridica, ca sa nu se intample astfel de calomnii! Vreti BOR, atunci ce cautati in ROEA/OCA? Cu ce intentie ati intrat in ROEA/OCA in primul rand? Drumul nostru aici este trasat de mult si bine cunoscut…
    Ne punem intrebari importante asupra motivatiilor celor care vor sa ne vanda Bucurestiului. De ce sunt ei in ROEA/OCA, cand au putut intra acolo unde spun ei ca este mai bine, adica in ROAA/BOR? O persoana corecta, care a avut de ales, si care a crezut ca este mai bine in ROAA/BOR, nu ar fi intrat in ROEA/OCA. Deci, este foarte greu de gasit corectitudine in astfel de parere, cuplata cu astfel de gest. Ce motiveaza astfel de persoane?


  33. Admininsrator Says:

    [Administrator’s note: Below you will find a translation of segments of our response to Toma posted above in Romanian.]
    Toma, … one thing is clear, we are now in the OCA; in other words the ROEA/OCA is the status quo. The revolutionary idea would be to abandon the OCA and go under BOR. Thus, if unity under BOR does not have MASSIVE support in our Episcopate, the ROEA, the rezult will be DISCORD and TEARING APART, etc., since the status quo is never easily overturned.
    Toma, why do you not accept that the vote took place a long time ago. Every immigrant after 1950, lay person or cleric, had a choice between the ROEA/OCA and ROAA/BOR. This truth applies even to those immigrants arriving after 1990. So, for the past 60 years the vast majority have voted with their feet and have massively chosen the ROEA/OCA; and this up to and including today. What more telling vote than this one are you calling for now?
    Do you not understand that those sent to infiltrate our Episcopate cannot overturn that which was built here based on honesty, righteousness, justice and truth? If we, their descendants, are not worthy and capable of protecting our religious treasures received from our parents, so that we also can pass them on to future generations, then our ancestors will stand up ensuring that this calomny will not occur! You want BOR, then what are you doing in the ROEA/OCA? What was your intention in joining ROEA/OCA in the first place? Our road here has been charted out for a long time now, and it has always been well known…
    We ask ourselves important questions regarding the motivations of those wanting to sell us out to Bucharest. What are they doing in the ROEA/OCA when they could have chosen to belong to where they claim is a better place, i.e. the ROAA/BOR? A fair person, who had the choice, and who honestly believed the ROAA/BOR to be the better place, would never had joined the ROEA/OCA. Thus, it is difficult to find any honesty in this type of opinion combined with the choice made. What motivates these types of people?


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leave me not with the spirit of laziness,
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Rather, give me, your servant, the spirit of integrity,
of humility, of patience, and of love.

Thus, Lord, grant me the wisdom to see my own faults,
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Our Father, who are in heaven,
hallowed be Your name.

Your kingdom come.
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Give us this day
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